Tuesday, February 3, 2009
What Should We Do?
Here is a place where we can share ideas and thoughts about what we should do about TCAPS' desire to eliminate third grade TAG. Please use the comment option at the bottom of this post to start the discussion. If you know how, feel free to add links to relevant websites, articles, etc. I'm no expert at this blogging stuff, but if anyone is having trouble with the technology here, you can email me at ksalathiel@message.nmc.edu.
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Thanks Kristen!!!
ReplyDeleteI'd suggest we get started by identifying comment topics for the board meeting next Monday. We can flesh out discussion points for each topic. Then different people with different backgrounds and authority can choose to speak on different topics.
ReplyDeleteFor example, one topic is that TAG is a magnet program that attracts children (and their $7,000 State revenue) from outside the Traverse City School District. I have the background and authority to speak to that because our daughter came from the Elk Rapids School District. If we find out how many children in TAG are currently from out of district, we can make an argument about the loss of revenue TCAPS will face by implementing these suggestions.
Other topics may be: Current numbers down because of decisions to limit program to those with gifted test scores (over 125 COGAT) vs. filling all spots available; Reason for including 3rd grade TAG this year (Parents will not send students to new school for just two years, they need the 3rd grade as an entry year); Current marketing issues and directions; etc.
If we come up with our topics and solid reasons to back them up, then we can start to get organized for concise and orderly presentations to the board. That should have a better impact than just showing up and complaining :)
I agree with Kerry. Our group should have at least 4 to 5 specific talking points with individual PAGE members discussing a specific point. The first PAGE member to speak can introduce herself and touch on what each of the following individuals will be speaking of. Following this presentation, additional members can "positively" speak of there support of the TAG program and why it should at the minimum be maintained as is.
ReplyDeleteIt's amazing to me, as I reviewed the letter to parents from Jim Fiel, that he said "Student achievement and development remain the top priority". I think we should remind the Board of this priority, along with the talking points as listed above. See you all Friday! Barb Ostrowski (Brooke, 3rd grade)
ReplyDeleteI can talk to coming from out of district. We moved here from Manistee so my son could attend bringing our daughter also to the system.
ReplyDeleteA few observations: The 1:25 ratio. Is this upheld in the Freshman Academy? They are boasting smaller class sizes.
Montessori: Not for everyone because no bussing and need to enter at lower grades. They do not have 1:25 at least not without an aide. They have special supplies in the class room that not all students in general ed get and they take special class trips that not all general ed students get to take. SO my point is why are they not considered elitest and not serving all of the population and TAG is. To me these students can "make it" in general ed too. They are not special ed.
Also, why are we giving the private and charter schools another niche to take students away from TCAPS. I like the idea that was presented at the meeting that TCAPS is becoming a mediocre school system. I always thought what brings people to a community is the jobs and the school system.
It would be nice to know the TAG Director's level of support for this program at the Third Grade level. If she does not believe it is feasible then we might just be wasting our time. She certainly didn't seem very supportive at the meeting a few days ago. Will she be speaking at the upcoming Board Meeting?
ReplyDeleteI have several different issues that I would like answers about:
ReplyDelete1. Not to be Debbie Downer--but the $7000 allotment per student was addressed with the board during the Bertha Vos closure. We were essentially told that TCAPS spends more than $7000 per child and if we took our kids elsewhere, it would be saving the board money. It is worthwhile to bring up, but we cannot afford to spend a lot of time with it.
2. As for the 3rd grade TAG class, we need to be able to contrast 3rd grade experiences for our 4th and 5th graders who did not receive the benefit of TAG at that level with this year's 3rd graders. Since this year's 3rd grade is the only year to experience TAG, we need their input.
3. Additionally, I wonder why the board thought 3rd grade TAG beneficial last year but one short year later we are told it is too difficult to identify children that early. Has there been a negative experience in the 3rd grade TAG this year? Teachers mentioned TAG to me as early as Kindergarten for my 4th grader and his younger sister's teachers have done the same. And she will be in 3rd grade next year--how many parents can we find throughout the district who have a 2nd grader that they would like tested?
4. The estimated savings in eliminating 3rd grade TAG are a little bit misleading. These 3rd graders will have to attend school somewhere--they're not just going to disappear. Granted, they will not all attend the same school but chances are good that they may adjust the ratio to above 1:25 somewhere and an additional teacher will be needed there. They are still going to pay for teachers, classrooms and supplies somewhere.
5. If the board's review of parents who turned down TAG and future testing of this years 4th and 5th graders who enter the system brings more children into TAG next year, would the board be willing to open an additional 4th or 5th grade classroom if the numbers allow it? Or are we going to cap the program at the numbers it currently has?
6. Finally (I know I'm long winded)--is it the general idea that TCAPS is phasing out the TAG program entirely at the elementary level? If so, how does this affect the AT program at the middle schools, and then to the high schools? TCAPS does a lot of bragging about high academic achievement at these levels and, like it or not, our kids are a part of that. How will they be facilitating its continuation?
One thought I have is the process by which TAG was placed on the radar screen in the first place.
ReplyDeleteThe elementary PTO's and principals were asked which items they thought could be cut from the budget. Most PTO parents are non-stakeholders in the TAG program and may not understand the value the TAG program brings to the district.
While PTO's may be in a position to recommend some cuts, it appears to me that they decided to cut programs that would have no direct impact on them or their children. That frame of mind is understandable, but unacceptable to those of us who understand the bigger picture and the benefit TAG brings to children and our district.
Jane Breederland, Mom to Lauren, 3rd Grade TAG
I think these are great comments. I'd suggest this as a start to an issues list:
ReplyDelete1. Classroom Ratios - Address why TAG numbers are down (First year of Third vs. Sixth grade and new entry requirements by test score instead of filling all the slots). Talk about a plan to get students up instead of reducing teachers.
2. Misleading Analysis... extra cost and loss of revenue - In order for these figures to work, administrators are claiming they can educate these students in other schools at no additional cost and no revenue loss. It would obviously cost more at other schools to take on 150 more students. It doesn't matter if they think it costs more than $7,000 to educate a child, in order for these numbers to work they are depending on having no loss in revenue. Every $7,000 loss directly impacts their savings by $7,000.
3. Process left out TAG stakeholders - This basically was a 'don't gore my ox' approach to balancing a budget. Instead of equaling sharing cuts, they are disproportionately placed on TAG. Decision makers had no stake in TAG. Even the 'TAG Coordinator' is only 20% TAG.
4. A policy decision is incorrectly being made as part of a budget process - Last year it was a 'good idea' to have Third grade TAG. The experience of Third grade TAG students has been very positive. By closing Third grade TAG and reducing teachers for Fourth and Fifth, a policy decision is being made that dramatically weakens TAG and probably kills it. This should be made in the context of overall policy, not in trying to save $180,000 out of an 80 million dollar budget.
I'm sure there are lots more... Lower costs due to no busing, General reasons for TAG programs, Impact on students, Desire of incoming Second graders, Marketing improvements, etc. What else should we talk about and how do we organize?
I don't know about the rest of you, but yesterday's meeting left me disappointed and frustrated.
ReplyDeleteThe decision to end 3rd grade TAG was made when someone decided to eliminate the funding necessary to test 2rd graders. Ceremonially taking it to the principals and PTOs is insulting to both the PTOs, who are lead to believe they are assisting in real decision making, and to the TAG parents who are now well aware that there will be no third grade TAG without a testing mechanism.
It would have been nice to have someone acknowledge that the cuts equaled the end of the 3rd grade program at yesterday's meeting. I don't know when the decision was made to defund second grade testing or who made it. There was no transparency on their part in this regard.
I also would have appreciated seeing a copy of the testing fees broken down by class and broken down by student cost. I suppose the responsibility to request this data is mine, but on the other hand, I have to believe that anyone could have anticipated these questions and prepared accordingly.
I also do not know why parents cannnot be offered the option of paying for their child to be tested. Other districts make families pay for sports equipment. Perhaps offering sports carries more weight than offer an option to properly educate gifted children?
And finally, this transportation“discrimination card" is absurd. It could carry some amount of credibility if they insisted that the Montessori students are provided transportation, but to cut the program under the guise of not wanting to discriminate is again insulting to any thinking person. And in addition to that, I question whether or not the transportation issue is a valid need or if it's just a red herring to further support the decision they already made.
I would be willing to pay a reasonable testing fee to have my 2nd grader tested for next year. She is further ahead of her brother at this stage and he is doing quite well in the TAG program. I still don't understand how 3rd grade TAG was such a good idea last year and this year we are told that the testing isn't accurate. It's either questionable research last year or questionable financial tactics this year. Either way, it's quite disappointing.
ReplyDeleteThe transportation issue is ridiculous. The board cut busing to TAG 2 or 3 years ago. It's essentially the same situation as "open-enrolling" our child in Central Grade. We become responsible for the transportation, just the same as if I chose to open-enroll him somewhere else. The Catholic schools use TCAPS buses to bring children in from all over town. Does anyone know if they are paying for this? It's the same shuttle bus system that was in place for TAG children before it was cut.
Finally, I would like to know what programs are being put in place for the children who are missing out on TAG. The previous director told us at last year's parent meeting that if we chose not to enroll our children then the district was working on better ways to meet their needs at their home schools. Has anything actually been implemented in this regard? My son's needs were not met in 3rd grade and if his sister cannot attend 3rd grade TAG, will they be doing anything different for her at our home school? There's only so much that a teacher can do with a classroom that varies wildly from severely learning disabled to gifted all in the same room. Will my daughter be losing out the same way her brother did in 3rd grade? The answer may make me seriously reconsider my choice of TCAPS.